Ed Schultz Message Board > Study Finds No Autism Link in Vaccine

chris in sacto

Sep 4 2008, 12:57 PM

QUOTE

<snip>examined when the children began showing behavioral problems and when they were vaccinated, and it examined bowel biopsies for telltale genetic traces of the MMR vaccine. Since obtaining the biopsies required sedating the children and an invasive procedure, Lipkin said his analysis was limited to a small sample of 38 children who needed the biopsies as part of their medical care.

The researchers studied the biopsies for traces of measles virus RNA. Where a 2002 study had found traces of the measles virus in a high percentage of biopsies taken from autistic children, the new study did not -- and also found no difference in the biopsies of children who were autistic and children of similar age who were not.

Lipkin said the theory linking MMR vaccine to autism involves a chain of events where the live virus in the measles vaccine would grow in the intestinal tract, cause inflammation and trigger formation of toxins that would affect the central nervous system.

If the dramatic results reported in the earlier research were accurate, Lipkin and his coauthors said, they should have found traces of measles RNA in bowel biopsies of a large proportion of the autistic children. Instead, they found such traces in just one child who was autistic and one child who was not. <snip>

WaPo

philathome

Sep 6 2008, 11:08 AM

QUOTE(chris hussein in sacto @ Sep 4 2008, 02:57 PM)

WaPo

nothing about thimerosol was indicated;the rates of autism have stabilised since the removal of thimerosol in 2000 and its total elimination about 2-3 years after in vaccines on the shelves.The rise in autism is still apparent in the increase in the number of vaccines given before the age of 5.Sorry,Chris,I'm still not convinced.

chris in sacto

Sep 6 2008, 11:21 AM

QUOTE(philHusseinathome @ Sep 6 2008, 10:08 AM)

nothing about thimerosol was indicated;the rates of autism have stabilised since the removal of thimerosol in 2000 and its total elimination about 2-3 years after in vaccines on the shelves.The rise in autism is still apparent in the increase in the number of vaccines given before the age of 5.Sorry,Chris,I'm still not convinced.

Did you bother to read the report on the study? I guess not. This is more complex than your understanding of the issue.

philathome

Sep 6 2008, 11:24 AM

QUOTE(chris hussein in sacto @ Sep 6 2008, 01:21 PM)

Did you bother to read the report on the study? I guess not. This is more complex than your understanding of the issue.

The autism community is tired of hearing what didn't cause it,we want to know what does cause it.

chris in sacto

Sep 6 2008, 11:36 AM

QUOTE(philHusseinathome @ Sep 6 2008, 10:24 AM)

The autism community is tired of hearing what didn't cause it,we want to know what does cause it.

Then keep talking to each other and fail to ask questions outside of your group. . .the only way to get answers is to ask questions & then conduct controlled experiments.

This is a typical fantasy people have about medicine. Medicine and physicians are all powerful, all knowing. They aren't. It's practiced by humans and humans are not perfect. They do the best they know how, just like you do.

philathome

Sep 6 2008, 12:06 PM

QUOTE(chris hussein in sacto @ Sep 6 2008, 01:36 PM)

Then keep talking to each other and fail to ask questions outside of your group. . .the only way to get answers is to ask questions & then conduct controlled experiments.

This is a typical fantasy people have about medicine. Medicine and physicians are all powerful, all knowing. They aren't. It's practiced by humans and humans are not perfect. They do the best they know how, just like you do.

these studies have been circulating for years;why the spike in the last 25 years that coincides with the increase in the number of vaccines being given?Better diagnosis?If the numbers have always been the same,the medical community is guilty of ignoring it for years.The fact is that there are environmental triggers.Yes,some kids are predisposed to reactions to these,but explain how theres a genetic epidemic that we keep hearing from the medical community.Wouldn't genetic causes have some connection to environmental triggers?Aren't genetics susceptible to environmental contamination that can cause mutations?Maybe its not vaccines;its probably not caused by ice cream,skinned knees or facial hair either.

philathome

Sep 6 2008, 12:20 PM

coincedence?

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/scandals/fe...on_symptoms.htm

J_dogg82

Sep 6 2008, 12:26 PM

A relationship does not necessarily signify a correlation phil.

I can't imagine what you go through. And I certainly can understand a refusal to accept something like this, especially since it seems to set everything back to zero.

I'm not expert on Autism. My sister works with autistic kids during the summer. My other sister is a nurse who works in pediatrics. They were discussing this study and I mostly listened. However it seemed pretty compelling to me. The report I saw at night called this study the "final nail in the coffin" for the MMR theory.

If this study is accurate then we have learned something. And we have gotten closer to a preventative and reparative cures. If we could factor out the sociological factors such as increased awareness leading to increased numbers seeking treatement leading to more proper diagnosis...well then I agree we could start looking for relationships and correlations. And perhaps that is where the cure begins. However that is what these people are trying to do. I'm sure that they would have been thrilled if this had come out the opposite just as everyone else here would be.

If Mercury is the cause then we are in deep shit. Do you think we'll stop burning Coal if it turns out that the number one producer of Mercury pollution is causing Autism?

IPB Image

philathome

Sep 6 2008, 12:44 PM

QUOTE(J_doggHussein82 @ Sep 6 2008, 02:26 PM)

A relationship does not necessarily signify a correlation phil.

I can't imagine what you go through. And I certainly can understand a refusal to accept something like this, especially since it seems to set everything back to zero.

I'm not expert on Autism. My sister works with autistic kids during the summer. My other sister is a nurse who works in pediatrics. They were discussing this study and I mostly listened. However it seemed pretty compelling to me. The report I saw at night called this study the "final nail in the coffin" for the MMR theory.

If this study is accurate then we have learned something. And we have gotten closer to a preventative and reparative cures. If we could factor out the sociological factors such as increased awareness leading to increased numbers seeking treatement leading to more proper diagnosis...well then I agree we could start looking for relationships and correlations. And perhaps that is where the cure begins. However that is what these people are trying to do. I'm sure that they would have been thrilled if this had come out the opposite just as everyone else here would be.

If Mercury is the cause then we are in deep shit. Do you think we'll stop burning Coal if it turns out that the number one producer of Mercury pollution is causing Autism?

IPB Image

yeah,the symptoms are so different.no correlation there,huh?Next I'll be hearing that Bettleheim was right,we just must be bad parents.Refrigerator parents.
Autism will never be cured;that is not the goal of people like me.My son will have autism for the rest of his life;finding the cause is designed to set a course toward prevention.

J_dogg82

Sep 6 2008, 01:09 PM

QUOTE(philHusseinathome @ Sep 6 2008, 01:44 PM)

yeah,the symptoms are so different.no correlation there,huh?Next I'll be hearing that Bettleheim was right,we just must be bad parents.Refrigerator parents.
Autism will never be cured;that is not the goal of people like me.My son will have autism for the rest of his life;finding the cause is designed to set a course toward prevention.

Are you arguing that it is Mercury now? Because I don't know if it is or isn't. It doesn't seem to be MMRs though.

I don't know where you think I called you a bad parent but I didn't. And I am very sorry for your son's condition.

I want to save as many children from autism as possible, just like you. And I think that mercury is a big hazard to people whether it causes Autism or not. It's possible that there is a relationship or a correlation between falling test scores and rising levels of Mercury in ground water and standing water. The only way that we will know is to test as many hypothesis as we can.

I'm up for it if you are. I think that, in regards to Mercury, autism rates should be higher in the higher concentrated areas...