The state of American Politics is just idiotic and seems to be handled like a bunch of fifth graders.

(Its spelled hypocrite. I can't change it now.)

Agreed.

Stereotyping one party based on one (or even a few) person is insulting and just childish.

Should we say all Democrats or Republicans are sexual harrassers or immoral because of Newt or Bill?

GOP leaders knew about this stuff for months and did nothing!

When you find me a democrat who has done the same thing I'll gladly blame him too.

Well, William Jefferson was stripped of his committees [within the constraints of House rules] by the D's when busted, and Foley was able to keep it up for years with a wink and nod from Denny and the rest of the GOP, because he's a good fundraiser. If WJ chooses to run again, it's up to him, but I don't see the D's bending over backwards to help him out.
Name one GOP personage in the Congress and administration that has actually been held accountable for actions and deceit prior to resigning (like Delay, Abramoff, Ney, Bush, Rummy, Cunningham, Doolittle, Lewis, Rice, Brown, Bremer, Guiliani, Allen George and Claude, Safavian, and so many more, some are still on the taxpayer's dime one way or another), and we might consider this a valid beef. Otherwise, try something else.


I see Malkin's already blaming Clinton for this.

One should never pait with a broad brush. Still its seems that the republicans let themselves in for this as they proclaimed to be the party that would return respect to the white house and the party of values.

Of course there are probably dems who are just as bad (I hope not). The whole issues smells of cover-up and people who live in glass houses etc.

Freudian reference to Denny Hastert???????

It took frozen cash in his freezer and weeks after that before he was stripped of his committees. He is still in Washington DC serving his constituents, right?

I found this on Corrente Wire, not normally the most objective source, but I would challenge my RW colleagues on this board to be able to match the lists, with facts since most of these already involve public records (like convictions). Warning, it's pretty long.


List can be found at:
http://www.correntewire.com/refresh_your_m...rty_of_perverts

Edited at Plunderer's request, since the point was made.

Cutting & posting huge posts is poor board ettiquette (accurate or not). Doing it across multiple threads, seems childish.

Jefferson hasn't been indicted or convicted, and he's pleading not guilty. They asked him to resign, but can't force him. They did all they could, they stripped him of all committte assignments.

However, Bob Ney has confessed to felonies, and the Republican leadership hasn't even asked him to resign, and he's still got his committee assignments and still voting on bills he took bribes to vote certain ways on.

The Republican party, a criminal enterprise.

GoU

I still think this is America, and when I last checked you have a right to a speedy and fair trial.

what he means is cutting and pasting long posts is bad etttiquette when it exposes the hyppocricy of the right wing and illustrates the depth of the perversion that they are either trying to cover up or justify.

Your ignorant statements aside, the rules of the board has something to say about the cutting and pasting.

http://edschultz.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=18755

Yep....enjoyin' every minute of it....guilt freeeeeeee.....

And theyve known about this jerk for years...not a few months:

lets ask the rest of the board-
do you think my comment about the sensitivity of the right to exposing the hyppocricy and perversion of a number of their political participants was excessive?Or is aztekman just having a knee-jerk reaction because he can't handle the truth?
Apparently,the pages were warned about him years ago,but the party didn't do anything about allowing this 'gentleman' access to all those kids.They pretty much condoned his actions by not removing him.

Oh teckman is great at condeming certain actions in theory, but when it turns out to be actual actions by some of his favorite actions figures, his responses range from --- we don't have all the facts yet --- to --- the other side is just as bad --- to --- this stereotyping (liberals are soft on terrorism) is just so unfair --- to silence.

He likes to talk. He imagines he talks a good game. But he only had about 3 things to say, he said them several months ago, and has just been repeating himself ever since. I seldom pay any attention to his posts anymore.

In my opinion, from the point of view of politics, it's not Foley's behavior that is the issue. He's just another pervert, who happens to be a Republican.

The point, from the perspective of politics, is the cover-up by the Republican House Leadership, and the reasons behind it. (The single-minded drive to get and keep power). That is reprehensible and beyond any lame defense tickman can offer.

No, as the instigator, I will say that Azzie is correct, it is not usually a good thing to do. However, the reason I did so was the fact that on every one of the threads we had some RW apologizing or temporizing (and I'm still steamed about Drudge today) by saying the D's were just as bad. As a result I gave them a list to work against themselves. So, I will apologize for posting the list in that many places, for which you all can give me a hard time if you like. I also get very tired of the RW ignorance ploy that gets done on these things.

I will observe only IVEATCH actually did some research on Shred's thread, but it isn't complete.

My response for him/her: [cut and paste alert]
How about specific errors you claim? What percentage of the ones pleading no contest, admitting in print their transgressions, and being convicted outright are incorrect?

Review of your post #10 in Republican Pedophiles had several observations of "charged, not convicted" that you could find. I'll give you those even though if we were talking about Silly Billy, charged = convicted. Even then we see 36 slime balls and 9 maybes or less. Not good odds for you if you're trying to say there's really nothing to see.

I observe on another thread you claim to have researched 79 of these and posted in Shred's thread ("Republican Pedophiles"), but I only count 45 in Post 10. What about the other 34 "researched" and the other 43 still pending out of the 122 posted? I might be off by one or two, but in the mean time, I'm waiting....

I cited the source, and in fairness noted that it was not objective. Instead of facts, I get bitching without links to dispute the posted assertions by Corrente.

You hit the nail squarely on the head here, SH. The other real point is the lack of accountability being shown in refusing to conduct an investigation into the whens and hows of the actions of the Republican leadership in not taking proper action since Foley was known (at least by the pages themselves) since 2001 to be a perv looking for some action and since at least 2005 by the leadership themselves. Why is it proper to spend tens of millions to investiage a BJ (yes I know I am bringing up Clinton, but neither as a scapegoat or as an excuse) and not to investigate the actions of at least four major Republican leaders in the House? As has been said, this is probably the tip of the iceberg.

So it would seem. And they should stand accoutable for their actions, but I sincerely doubt all republican representatives knew. As someone on the news said: this isn't the thing you talk about regardless of what party you're in. Foley would have attempted to keep it secret. The leaders would have wanted to suppress it as well. A full investigation will show who is guilty of covering Foley's actions up.

When will this investigation begin? I have still not heard that one has been announced. Foley is being investigated by the FBI but the leadership still walks free.

There's another thread started on the emails CREW sent over to the FBI in July.

Therefore, this is a very important question, since the need for one was clearly apparent, but not touched until ABC published the story (and how's that for irony after the mockumentary last month, I wonder if the DoJ will go after them now).

Ed thinks a commission, I'd say a special prosecutor since commission details can be tinkered with in the GOP favor. Think Fitz on the prosecutor.

I don't remember hearing the FBI would only investigate Foley. A comprehensive investigation will include everyone involved. I would think an FBI investigation would be comprehensive. It appears Hassert is also calling for a full investigation which is kinda like putting a hammer to your own thumb. I feel his efforts are more damage control than real concern.

I derive no joy from this story.

I ask, lefties and righties, this small, insignificant question: who has the interests of the kid at heart? Who speaks for the young man? I'm sure everyone claims they do, but I wonder.

I am embarrassed by my government, and not for the first time. Someone failed here, and this is probably a small failure next to Iraq and the war on terror and the economy, but it's a real failure and quite possibly some young people were permanently harmed. Schadenfreude my ass, pal. Politicize this at your peril.

Good post, Doc.

That was my point. That this shouldn't be politicised.

And what I witness here and elsewhere is surely a Schadenfreude moment by those that are slavering over the incident.

I agree with the good Doctor's sentiment. The first reaction I had when I read that months ago Hastert and Shimkus (et al) had been informed of the concern: "so did they talk to any of the pages?" How can you learn of such a potentially devastating situation, and then have your follow up amount solely to asking the suspect if he was misbehaving and taking his answer at face value? It is a gross dereliction of duty at a minimum, and a share of the culpability if anything untoward (beyond the reported messages) actually ever did happen. These are 16 year old kids living away from their parents. Doesn't the leadership have some responsibility for their safety?

Had they done event the most basic of fact-finding activities, Hastert and Shimkus would have been able to address this months, if not years ago. That was clearly not their intention. It is reprehensible.

LS

The last Republican to show a little backbone in the area of ethics and investigations was Joel Hefley, from my district. He was in charge of the House Ethics committee but was stymied in his efforts to look into Delay's behavior. Now here's a guy trying to be non-partisan and what does he get? He got so fed up he isn't running again. (And by the way, the guy who is running to replace him as a Republican, ran what Congressman Hefley remarked was a "sleazy campaign" and thus far has refused to endorse him).

Another Republican with some semblance of integrity bites the dust. No Brian, what is sad is the Republican party and what they've become.

We are gonna kick these Bum's out and I am not even a Democrat, just voting as one 'straight ticket' this cycle.

It's also spelled "you're", as in "you are", not "your", as in belonging to you.

As for the rest of your post -- Who's acting like fifth graders? The Republicans, scrambling around looking for an excuse for the inexcusable?

Maybe a bit of both.
I actually didn't mind the cut/paste as it indeed DOES show that the party of lofty values is, well, all too human. (Or LESS human) Are DEMS immune to such actions? Of course not. But want to know the difference? First, the GOP has taken denial to an art form. They could be caught in bed squacking a sheep while sucking out the brains of dead infants and first deny it, then blame it on a witch hunt (and maybe Clinton somehow), then spin, spin spin until the news cycle is over. Next, they have robbed the brains of the nation by continuing to preach these values... which they don't own at all by the way, thirdly, they pretty much own the airways so that message gets blasted out to a nation with way too many brain-dead folks. Soon it becomes the meme of the day... and they are DAMNED good at it.
I have seen in my too many years this: The vast majority of the far-right people I've had the displeasure to meet are some of the most arrogant pricks I have ever met in my life. Among them are the most crooked individuals on the face of the earth. It's money, it's power, and it is NOT for the common good. Or why else would they stoop so low on the evolutionary scale to try to cover for a FUCKING pedophile?
They are simply rat-bastard trash.

Don't hold back, Les.

If Has-turd really tried to cover this up, he should be impeached, indicted, and imprisoned. What sort of character does he have to not only turn a blind eye, but to help shovel the dirt over the evidence? That is, if the allegations are true. I'm trying to keep an open mind, but with the record of congressional scandals, where there's smoke, there's a thousand acre forest fire.

Let it out. How do you really feel?

You are correct, but the truth is the truth. Sunlight upon scumbaggery trumps the rules, in my not-so-humble opinion.

A scumbag is a scumbag is a scumbag. It's not schadenfreude. It's exposing a filthy pervert for what he is, and working toward keeping his cronies from covering it up. Deal with it. This is just the beginning of "The Purge".

of course it is schadenfreude, but that does not mean those who are rapt in schadenfreude are wrong.

sure the blond girl for repubs turns out to be a blond boy.

true schadenfreude is the emotions you will experience watching two moralists square off on the question of gay marriage,

jon stewart and bill bennett

Who, exactly, takes joy in someone else's misery, when they protect pedophiles? I *am* absolutely thrilled that this guy got caught, because I'm happy when any toad gets apprehended. If it was your child, you'd be glad they got caught, too.

I am not thrilled a child got molested because it serves our purposes. It's because a lying, hypocritical, surreptitious piece of child-molesting monkey dung got caught.

It is still taking joy in someone else's misery. Of course, not everyone can understand more than one concept at a time.

Party pooper!

Golly gee, I think you're right. The idea of being glad that a criminal is brought to justice is just too complex for my little ole brain. Perhaps if I were more enlightened, I'd be more sympathetic to grown men who proposition teenagers. No one wants children to be molested for political gain, that is a reprehensible thing to say.

Perhaps the two neurons strung between my ears lit up a synapse that said that the real misery here is the child, not the accused pedophile. I don't see a thing here that takes any joy in THAT misery, but I see a lot of apologists. We forgot who the victim is, for a minute. Because he's inconvenient, and his suffering isn't as compelling as that of his perpetrator.

But hey, that's just simple-minded observations.

I'll probably catch fire for this again so making a dsiclaimer that I am NOT trying to excuse any wrong actions in this, but I think what Brian refers to is the number of posters who, with seeming joy, announce this will bring down the republicans and post numerous lists to past issues concerning republicans. Lost in there somewhere is the issue of protecting the kids. Not meaning you Celene or most of the posters on the board, but there are a few who lose perspective imo.

Once again you prove my point.

It's not that we've lost perspective, we're just accentuating the positive. And besides that, it's sooooo much fun watching the apologists adulterate their "values" in order to justify this. Yes, I'm taking SWEET, guilt free pleasure in this.

Senihele, while I see your point, there's a certain responsibility that you accept when you place yourself on a moral pedestal. It's longer and more painful when you fall, and some people will laugh about it, particular if they've been lectured from that lofty place. I simply don't see the consequences of a criminal's crime (of this nature) as "misery". It reminds me of those people who go out and get drunk as lords, then expect sympathy when it's time for work and they're in a puddle of self-induced pain.

In the words of my dear husband, if they want sympathy from me, they can look in the dictionary, it's between "shit" and "syphilis".

That may be true but the actions of those who lose perspective and find glee in this story are NOT excused by the actions or inactions of others. If political pleasure takes a higher priority than security for the pages and ousting abusers out of congress then you've won nothing. You appear to mistake my comment to mean compassion for Foley. No, that's NOT what I suggested at all.

Let me edit to make it more clear: Our concern should be on the abuses and the youths involved. NOT on partisan dickering. Taking Foley out is just and right, as is ousting anyone who covered this up. I'm certainly not suggesting to feel sorry for THEM!?!?!?

Bluemoon, that's the SANITIZED version. Guess I'm an honorary DEMOHAWK, huh? Just TIRED of being pushed around, being called a traitor, being called Godless, tired of the right's rhetoric altogether.
Now please know that it's the FAR right I despise, not the moderates. The far right are sub-human cretins... the moderates are merely confused.

The positive would be: the republicans are caving in on themselves without any help, so just stand back and let them. While they are spending all of their energy doing damage control, the dem candidates can instead be showing how they will make the voters life better in the next two years (i.e. before the 08 election) by the policies they will put forth. Now is the time to pull out the "Democratic plan for Tomorrow" and show America the leadership and vision you will instill if they vote -for- you instead of against a pervert.

On the big race in my area, Cardin vs Steele (the battle over the puppy dog) I'm pretty sure who I am voting for, but want to watch the debate to know 100%. While I don't think the Foley incident should spill over on all republican candidates, it is hard not to expect the sum of all the individual republican problems to have some implications in the election. I hope the decent, truely-representing-their-district/state republicans (all 3 of them ) do get re-elected. If we want the two-party system to work, it can't be good vs evil, but it needs to be good vs good with the battle being over how to achieve the same common goals. That is, we need decent people being election on both the democrat and republican sides.

I hope for the best to the youngsters receiving the emails from Foley. That is not an experience any youngster should have. I demand that all possible charges (not knowing what specific statues have been broken) are filed against Foley.

No, I was unclear and I apologize--dealing with two responses at the same time. I don't think the safety of minors should be a partisan affair. If this was a Democrat, I'd feel the same way.

As a point of discussion, there are those who *would* make campaigning on these points a very partisan affair; how do you feel about individuals who campaign on this, ostensibly win partially because of those very partisan claims, and then news like this breaks? Where do we draw the line between calling someone on their BS, and making use of a crime politically?

Seeing how W is busy casting the Ds as "soft on terror" because they actualy deigned to vote against torture it's clear that anything goes for weapons in politics. I don't think for a minute that if the roles were reversed Rove wouldn't ram this down the D's throats.

Didn't Frist and Menendez just float the idea of caving into the Taliban (= Al Qaeda for those keeping track) as a cut-and-run? These guys actually did hit us. I note this because of the themes of W's speeches on this tour. It's got its own thread.