just as bushco ignored cia warning in the summer of 2001. so also must they avoid the consequences.

ol' heckuva is doing his thang.

Nothing to see there either I guess. It's so patriotic to abandon our first responders isn't it?
I said a year ago that this was comming and I was told by the Righties it was a myth.

Funny and not funny at all that all my predictions keep comming true.

I'm sure the righties here will come up with some lame excuse for why the administration and congress is not crooked.
Jim

NEW YORK - Nearly 70 percent of recovery workers who responded to the attacks on the World Trade Center have suffered lung problems, and high rates of lung “abnormalities” continue, a new health study released Tuesday shows.
Findings highlighted by the Mount Sinai study include:

Almost 70 percent of World Trade Center responders had new or worsened lung symptoms after the attacks.
Among responders who had no health symptoms before the attacks, 61 percent developed lung symptoms while working on the toxic pile.
One-third of those tested had abnormal lung function tests.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14681710/

This is why just after the attacks the Bush administration shielded Asbestos manufacturers from any lawsuits. He knew what was in the air and he didn’t want his buddies to have to compensate anyone for using deadly materials.
Jim

NEW YORK - Nearly 70 percent of recovery workers who responded to the attacks on the World Trade Center have suffered lung problems, and high rates of lung “abnormalities” continue, a new health study released Tuesday shows.
Findings highlighted by the Mount Sinai study include:

Almost 70 percent of World Trade Center responders had new or worsened lung symptoms after the attacks.
Among responders who had no health symptoms before the attacks, 61 percent developed lung symptoms while working on the toxic pile.
One-third of those tested had abnormal lung function tests.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14681710/

This is why just after the attacks the Bush administration shielded Asbestos manufacturers from any lawsuits. He knew what was in the air and he didn’t want his buddies to have to compensate anyone for using deadly materials.
Jim

Remember WHO bailed out the asbestos manufacturers! Who turned a low moving stck into a boomoing bear stock! Hint: starts with an H ends with a N and their godfather take friend bird hunting so he can shoot them.

W.M. Grace and Libby, Montana all over again.

This sorry assed administration has become the Culture of Death. Well, Nightline is on and they are covering this. 70% of the people working at ground zero have problems.

The families of the 9/11 victims were compensated for their losses. Will the first responders and constructions workers at this site also be so compensated? There will be more shoes falling over this for years to come. I'm so glad we believed the EPA when they told us the site was safe in the days following the attacks.

NEW YORK - Nearly 70 percent of recovery workers who responded to the attacks on the World Trade Center have suffered lung problems, and high rates of lung “abnormalities” continue, a new health study released Tuesday shows.
Findings highlighted by the Mount Sinai study include:

Almost 70 percent of World Trade Center responders had new or worsened lung symptoms after the attacks.
Among responders who had no health symptoms before the attacks, 61 percent developed lung symptoms while working on the toxic pile.
One-third of those tested had abnormal lung function tests.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14681710/

DUH, whenever a person brings in dust particles that is made up of everything from the buildings for an extended period, including insulation, sheetrock, metals, bones...., one can expect to have a cough. Just from sheetrock alone, I have developed a cough.
It would be a shame if the first-liners were not properly taken care of.

There ya go again denying reality and excusing the actions of your party. If you actually read any of the information and links in this thread you might have a better understanding of what actually happened. Not sure but I think you were one of the people who said WTC cough was a left wing myth.

If you go back and read some of Zats links you might learn something about the subject.
Jim

DUH, whenever a person brings in dust particles that is made up of everything from the buildings for an extended period, including insulation, sheetrock, metals, bones...., one can expect to have a cough. Just from sheetrock alone, I have developed a cough.
It would be a shame if the first-liners were not properly taken care of.

Interesting how there has been no comment by any rightie on this board regarding this important issue. Just another travesty to be swept under the rug. There is so much under there now that you cannot help but stumble as you walk through the years of the Bush administration. Anybody still think he is going to go down in history as anything but one of America's worst presidents?

Safety inspectors who roamed the site consistently reported the failure to use respirators. "We have observed very inconsistent compliance with our recommendations," the EPA's Bruce Sprague warned in an Oct. 5 memo.

On Oct. 15, Stew Burkhammer, an official with Bechtel, the firm initially in charge of safety, complained to city safety official Robert Adams: "They [contractors] are either refusing to take corrective action or are giving our team excuses as to why we have no authority to tell them anything. Our team members are not used to taking abuse like this and are getting very discouraged."

In January and February 2002, the failure to use respirators remained a serious problem. On Jan. 3, for example, DDC official Bruce Rottner wrote that just 20 percent of workers were wearing their respirators.

"Throughout the entire site tonight and last night use of respiratory protective equipment . . . was terrible," Rottner wrote.

There were several reasons for the problems. The masks were difficult to wear. It was hard to breathe and hard to talk in them. And it was a lot to ask workers, on exhausting 12-hour shifts, to wear them at all times, according to memos at the time.

Though OSHA said it had trained thousands of workers, some Ground Zero workers claimed that they either never received respirators or did not receive adequate training in using them.

Several officials have acknowledged in depositions that there was no one person in charge of enforcing the safety guidelines. In hindsight, Sam Benson, a city OEM official, testified: "I certainly would have had more of an overhead team ... and to have a more disciplined process."

So, will you denounce the Bush administration for ordering the EPA to lie to the American people and tell them the WTC area was safe, when they knew it was quite unsafe and they knew they were lying?

GoU

The unproductive rhetoric aside, it will be interesting to see if workers who knowingly didn't follow instructions to wear protective gear will be held responsible for their own actions.
http://www.newsday.com/news/printedition/l...ny-linews-print

Chip

Maybe you can present information/references to back up your statements so I know WTF you are talking about. Thanks.

NEW YORK - Nearly 70 percent of recovery workers who responded to the attacks on the World Trade Center have suffered lung problems, and high rates of lung “abnormalities” continue, a new health study released Tuesday shows.
Findings highlighted by the Mount Sinai study include:

Almost 70 percent of World Trade Center responders had new or worsened lung symptoms after the attacks.
Among responders who had no health symptoms before the attacks, 61 percent developed lung symptoms while working on the toxic pile.
One-third of those tested had abnormal lung function tests.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14681710/

This is why just after the attacks the Bush administration shielded Asbestos manufacturers from any lawsuits. He knew what was in the air and he didn’t want his buddies to have to compensate anyone for using deadly materials.
Jim

It's even worse than this -- the Bush administration pressured EPA to remove the warning about air quality around ground zero, and the recommendation that all those in the area wear air filtration masks! The EPA actually REMOVED those warnings and recommendations and implied that air quality was fine! I am looking for a direct link, but I remember when it happened. I even blogged on the topic at the time. This action was absolutely unforgivable. This action alone justifies a full investigation into that whole event. Americans are STILL dying from 9/11 -- and in the case of lung disease from contaminated air -- Bush is the reason.

So, will you denounce the Bush administration for ordering the EPA to lie to the American people and tell them the WTC area was safe, when they knew it was quite unsafe and they knew they were lying?

GoU

Exactly. Isn't it interesting that the right wing will not say a word about an administration that willfully lied to the American people, and instead attack the very people that headed TOWARD the WTC towers to try to save lives?

The hatred they show towards first responders boggles the mind.

GoU

YOU THOUGHT WRONG. I live in the real world and very familiar with items like these coughs that are caused by improper protection.

Do you really want to discuss items or are you just into causing contention?

Are you referring to the ground zero workers, or the population at large which lives in the area?

In either case the entire fiasco cannot be pinned on the Bush administration, as the evidence suggests culpability across the board from city officials all the way to the federal level, just as was seen in New Orleans with Katrina.

To be clear, I don't excuse anyone who mishandled the situation. There's already enough finger-pointing between government agencies, and I think we can be better than that.

Chip

We're discussing those involved in the aftermath, not the first responders.

Back to false accusations of hatred so soon?

Chip

It'd be nice if we could deal with folks from the right that actually comes from an informed viewpoint, rather than that of ignorance of the actual facts in today's world.

Via MSNBC:

However, a report by the EPA’s Office of the Inspector General released on Aug. 21 states, among other criticisms, that the White House reviewed and even changed EPA statements about public health risks to make them sound less alarming. The report charges that the White House Council on Environmental Quality influenced “the information EPA communicated to the public through its early press releases when it convinced EPA to add reassuring statements and delete cautionary ones.” The report cites “reopening Wall Street” and “national security” as reasons for the spin.

*snip*

But, Forras says, even Mayor Rudolph Guiliani appeared to believe the EPA’s statement and went so far as to stand next to then-EPA administrator Christie Whitman and announce that the air was safe.

“When you have someone of the caliber of Mayor Guiliani saying it, they took that as gospel,” says Forras.

Our government lied to us.

GoU

“Did we rush out (too soon) with data? On balance, I think we used our best professional judgment in an atmosphere where people were clamoring for answers.” But the agency wasn’t trying to deceive the public, she claims.

EPA Administrator Christie Whitman announced today that results from the Agency's air and drinking water monitoring near the World Trade Center and Pentagon disaster sites indicate that these vital resources are safe. Whitman also announced that EPA has been given up to $83 million from the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) to support EPA's involvement in cleanup activities and ongoing monitoring of environmental conditions in both the New York City and Washington metropolitan areas following last week's terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

While careful not to impede the search, rescue and cleanup efforts at either the World Trade Center or the Pentagon disaster sites, EPA's primary concern has been to ensure that rescue workers and the public are not being exposed to elevated levels of potentially hazardous contaminants in the dust and debris, especially where practical solutions are available to reduce exposure. EPA has assisted efforts to provide dust masks to rescue workers to minimize inhalation of dust. EPA also recommends that the blast site debris continue to be kept wet, which helps to significantly reduce the amount of airborne dust which can aggravate respiratory ailments such as asthma. On-site facilities are being made available for rescue workers to clean themselves, change their clothing and to have dust-laden clothes cleaned separately from normal household wash.

Once again, from the MSNBC article I posted on post #17:

However, a report by the EPA’s Office of the Inspector General released on Aug. 21 states, among other criticisms, that the White House reviewed and even changed EPA statements about public health risks to make them sound less alarming. The report charges that the White House Council on Environmental Quality influenced “the information EPA communicated to the public through its early press releases when it convinced EPA to add reassuring statements and delete cautionary ones.” The report cites “reopening Wall Street” and “national security” as reasons for the spin.

The White House was DIRECTLY INVOLVED in the lies.

Nice try to spin out of it.

GoU

Again read the links and do a little digging and you will find out why people did not have proper protection.
Then look up what Bush did to protect the Asbestos industry.
Do that and then come back and talk to me.
Boy you guys get pissed when your wrong.
Jim

Once again, from the MSNBC article I posted on post #17:

However, a report by the EPA’s Office of the Inspector General released on Aug. 21 states, among other criticisms, that the White House reviewed and even changed EPA statements about public health risks to make them sound less alarming. The report charges that the White House Council on Environmental Quality influenced “the information EPA communicated to the public through its early press releases when it convinced EPA to add reassuring statements and delete cautionary ones.” The report cites “reopening Wall Street” and “national security” as reasons for the spin.

The White House was DIRECTLY INVOLVED in the lies.

Nice try to spin out of it.

GoU

It would be nice to deal with extremists that actually produced information to back up their statements without adding unproductive drivel.

Also it would be nice to get information that is not commentary and provide facts instead. It appears this article was written as an opinion piece without any back-up to support their claims.
"Charges of a cover-up hit nerve with New Yorkers", if they are substantiated where are the convictions? Are the Dems covering this up also? Is that why nothing being said about the cover-up?

Your "reports' of white house influence are unconfirmed.
In fact, the EPA admits that they may have made mistakes.
The EPA put out that the workers need to protect themselves properly.

http://www.epa.gov/wtc/stories/headline_091801.htm
Your misinformation astounds me. It seems to become worst as time goes on.

Not while this bunch is in office. They lied and screwed this up, then along came Katrina. 'Heck of a job'.

EPA Misled Public on 9/11 Pollution
White House ordered false assurances on air quality, report says
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0823-03.htm

Judge Blasts EPA Ground Zero Appraisal
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/02/...in1276366.shtml

(An EPA) statement about discovery of asbestos at higher than safe levels in dust samples from lower Manhattan was changed to state that "samples confirm previous reports that ambient air quality meets OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Administration) standards and consequently is not a cause for public concern." This is an out-and-out, bold-faced LIE! ...as proved by the next line below...

Language in an EPA draft stating that asbestos levels in some areas were three times higher than national standards was changed to "slightly above the 1 percent trigger for defining asbestos material."

This sentence was added to a Sept. 16 news release: "Our tests show that it is safe for New Yorkers to go back to work in New York's financial district." It replaced a statement that initial monitors failed to turn up dangerous samples.

A warning on the importance of safely handling ground zero cleanup, due to lead and asbestos exposure, was changed to say that some contaminants had been noted downtown but "the general public should be very reassured by initial sampling."

The report also notes examples when EPA officials claimed that conditions were safe when no scientific support was available.

Can you believe this sh!T??! And their (stated) reason? So the EPA wouldn't be "alarmist"! Should we now have our fire departments & personnel politely suggest that people leave a burning building? Or maybe they should just tell them it's OK to stay...?

New York's leaders responded with dismay.

Rep. Jerry Nadler, a Manhattan Democrat, called for a Justice Department investigation. "That the White House instructed EPA officials to downplay the health impact of the World Trade Center contaminants due to 'competing considerations' at the expense of the health and lives of New York City residents is an abomination," he said in a news release. Amen to that!

Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., said in an interview it was "understandable that in the midst of a crisis the White House did not want the EPA to sound alarmist." But, he warned, "If the public loses faith that things are safe when the government says so, we'll have done more damage than a pointed statement the week after 9/11 would have." Nice strong, righteous response from a NY Dem (NOT)! What a weanie...

"Drivel" - fair warning that Aztek cannot argue with the actual facts, and therefore has to attack the poster to try to discredit the issue.

The EPA admitted to lying, and noted that the Bush administration changed their planned statements. That comes DIRECTLY from the EPA. Deny it all youwant.

Both the first responders and the construction industries headed straight for the WTC as it was happening. Union construction workers knew their equipment would be needed to pull people out of the rubble. They did so immediately, and saved lives in doing so. To attack them is just plain sad.

I was talking about the right wing as a whole, as is plain from my words.

Quit net-copping. You are NOT a moderator.

GoU

"Drivel" - fair warning that Aztek cannot argue with the actual facts, and therefore has to attack the poster to try to discredit the issue.

I quoted the part that took information straight from the EPA report. If you had been paying attention to the news at the time of the report, you would already know this information. Your woeful ignorance of current events is not my fault.

The EPA admitted to lying, and noted that the Bush administration changed their planned statements. That comes DIRECTLY from the EPA. Deny it all youwant.

You call me a liar, while your very press release shows the lies of the EPA:

EPA Administrator Christie Whitman announced today that results from the Agency's air and drinking water monitoring near the World Trade Center and Pentagon disaster sites indicate that these vital resources are safe. Whitman also announced that EPA has been given up to $83 million from the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) to support EPA's involvement in cleanup activities and ongoing monitoring of environmental conditions in both the New York City and Washington metropolitan areas following last week's terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

"We are very encouraged that the results from our monitoring of air quality and drinking water conditions in both New York and near the Pentagon show that the public in these areas is not being exposed to excessive levels of asbestos or other harmful substances," Whitman said. "Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C. that their air is safe to breath and their water is safe to drink," she added.

They knew it wasn't, but the Bushies rewrote their release.

GoU

Really? Where is the EPA reference then?

BTW, good diversion from the thread. You are good.

I ask for an reference to back up your statement and you proivde a commentary article. True misinformation/spin, you should run for a polticial office.

And the article is three years old and nothing since to substantiate your claim? Must be real factual stuff there.

As were many non-union people involved in saving lives, but that's besides the point.

Again, are we discussing first responders, those involved in the cleanup of the aftermath, or the public at large around Ground Zero?

Oh, so it's the whole right wing who "hates the first responders"? Methinks you're going the wrong direction with this one.

Nice deflection, but as long as you've brought it up, it's sad to think anyone would be making blanket accusations of hate, much less a moderator.

RE: post #31

So now age is an indicator of falsehood? If the assertions contained in a three-year old article are questioned simply because of their age, what are we to make of the claims made in the Bible?

RE: post #31

So now age is an indicator of falsehood? If the assertions contained in a three-year old article are questioned simply because of their age, what are we to make of the claims made in the Bible?

Actually, no. In the first few days a union card was required to get into the area as a worker to help attempt to save lives. All first responders were union.

Both. The EPA and administration lied to everyone.

It's what I see from everything they do.

Netcopping again. Chip, worry about yourself. Think about the blanket accusations you make before you throw stones.

GoU

Where was I wrong and defineately not pissed (I do not get emotional over people's silly posts/rants)? I said DUH, there is a problem there. Maybe you cannot read? Come back to me when you really want to talk/discuss based on facts rather than your biased/political drivel and non-productvie rhetoric.

I Do not make claims about the Bible and am not a theologian.

Age is not an indicator but a one-time claim from a commenary with no follow up sure makes the claim less substantiated, IMO.

If you have more, please provide it.
Besides the article and statements by GOU are a diversion from the thread. I am trying to stay on topic.

You're so pissed you can't even type
All you have here is insults and spin, GoU has proven the case quite clearly and it seems as if you are coming unglued over being wrong twice in one day. Get used to it you will be proven wrong repeatedly from here on in, the truth is coming out so fast lately that we can’t even keep up with it.

Get some Mylanta you’ll need it.
Jim

This is what they told us 9/21/01
http://www.epa.gov/wtc/stories/headline2_092101.htm

This is what they did
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/08/09/...ain567489.shtml

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3076626

Let me know when you’ve absorbed the information and then we can discuss it.
Jim

Looks like you are not even interested in discussion. Nothing has been proven at all. Do you believe blogs/commentaries? I certainly do not.
I guess you did not read/comrpehend what was being discussed.

Get back to me when you are up-to-date.

Insulting me will not change reality either of course you're free to try but I think you're missing some legs.

Those are valid links to reputable sources what's the problem?

Why is the truth so hard for you to accept?
Get back to me when you learn to read, those are not blogs they are the official EPA site CBS and MSNBC.

See even when you’re given proof you make crap up and claim that it’s something it isn’t. I just caught you in a bald faced lie, you didn’t even look at the links but you made up a story about it being “blogs/commentaries”.
You sir are truth challenged.
Jim

I Do not make claims about the Bible and am not a theologian.

Age is not an indicator but a one-time claim from a commenary with no follow up sure makes the claim less substantiated, IMO.

If you have more, please provide it.
Besides the article and statements by GOU are a diversion from the thread. I am trying to stay on topic.

Aztek, why must you now resort to flat-out lies? The article I linked to was from a mainstream news source, and it was not an editorial or an op/ed, although you keep dishonestly saying it was. We have provided no blogs or opinion pieces. Yet you say that's all we're doing.

Why are you doing this? You seem to have really jumped the shark the last couple of days.

GoU

When will you people get it? This is just one of a long list of lies told by the Bush White House since he took office 6 years ago.

9.11.01: Two years later
Ground zero air quality was 'brutal' for months
UC Davis scientist concurs that EPA reports misled the public
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...10/MN266317.DTL

Reports Show N.Y. City Hall was Divided over Ground Zero Air Quality
http://cms.firehouse.com/content/article/a...46&id=50932

Newspaper: Draft EPA report questions Ground Zero air quality
http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/03/17/ground.zero.air.ap/

Inspector General Report: EPA Misled Public About Health Effects of WTC Collapse
http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/epa-response/

What was known about post-9/11 air
Inspector General says White House changed EPA statements about safety at Ground Zero
http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/090603A.shtml