Uqarit-I have seen and read many of your posts and perhaps I missed something. What solution do you propose for the Middle East? I would be most interested in seeing it. If you already have please repeat.

*crickets chirping*

I see a lot of bashing, but not a lot of real solutions put forward. I don't claim to have the answers myself, but I think it would be a lot more productive to offer some creative ideas.

One interesting idea (only a partial solution) would be to make part of Jerusalem a sort of "Vatican" of the Middle East, an international city, with all of the holy sites as the major tourist attractions that they would be in a more peaceful climate.

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

The first step towards peace in the middle east is: stop killing people.
("I'll stop when they stop", ensures that no one will ever stop.)



Mac

Israel accept the Arab League's peace proposal, which normalizes relations with Israel with full diplomatic and cultural ties. Sadly Israel turned it down.

One of the main issues is that Israeli philosophy is still based on expansion and judaizing the land it captures. If that does'nt change I'm afraid that the conflict will continue.

I would also add a push for promoting liberal democracies in the middle east. Lebanon is close to that, unless Israel continues to destroy it.

I hope that helps.

I would also add compensation or repatriation (very tough one) of Palestinian refugees and Arab Jews who escaped their Arab countries.

Please look at Arab Peace Initiative

It's not perfect but it would be a great start. It may come as a surprise to many that most Arabs forgive and forget rapidly and would prefer to be friendly and hospitable.

What do you propose for a solution?

Even though it appears complicated to Americans it's a simple problem to solve.

I respectfully disagree with this characterization. In fact, I would assert that the opposite is the case--

“I want to say that this is our Palestine, from Metulla [Israel's northernmost city] to Rafiah [Southern border] and to Aqaba [Israel's southernmost point], from the [Jordan] River to the [Mediterranean] Sea; whether they want it or not.” — Dr. Jareer Al-Kidwah, advisor to President Arafat,
PA TV broadcast, November 29, 2000.

And now, Israel is supposed to negotiate with Hezbollah, whose leader says things like this:

“If they [Jews] all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide.” — Hezbollah leader Sheikh Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah, Lebanon Daily Star, October 23, 2002.

We need moderates who can talk civilly to one another, but this may be too much to hope for.

You can disagree but it's based on reality and facts of what Israel stands for. You don't seem to realize who these jews were who were given most of Palestine. They were not native to Palestine. They were colonists from Europe and the US and they were the minority population and owned only 10% of the land. The Zionist project was and still is based upon expansion of its borders and expelling as many non-jews as possible. These are facts that honest Zionists admit.

Please read the books I recommended. They're not written by Arab propogandists.

My we throw the word "facts" around so easily. Ugarit, I am amazed and thrilled you acknowledged there are actually Jewish refugees as a part of the middle east problem. I'll bet that 99 out of 100 readers of this thread have no knowledge of this rather large point of history, so let's review the facts shall we:

The number of the Jewish refugees from Arab countries exceeds the number of the Palestinian refugees. There were about 900,000 Jewish refugees from Arab lands, versus 500,000 to 600,000 Palestinian Arab refugees. The Jews were expelled systematically, under an official regime policy which included anti-Jewish decrees, pogroms, murders and hangings, anti-Semitic incitement and actual ethnic cleansing. The Palestinians, on the other hand, left the area in the course of an 18-month war when several Arab armies opposing the UN partition resolution invaded Israel. Arab leaders called on the Palestinians to leave. The hundreds of thousands of Arabs who did not stayed in Israel, a decision most have not regretted, except when Hezbollah's missles fall on their heads and kill them (how inconvienient).

Unlike the Palestinians, the Jewish refugees were absorbed into their host countries, mostly by Israel. About 600,000 stayed in Israel and the remaining 300,000 fled to other countries, such as France, Canada, Italy and the United States. In Israel today, the Jews from Arab countries and their children comprise the majority of the Jewish population. What did the Arabs and the Palestinians do with their own refugees? After rejecting the UN resolution which called for a Jewish state, and after their defeat in the battlefield, when they failed to drive the Jews into the sea, the Arab countries developed a brilliant scheme.

With the help of the United Nations, they created an unprecedented machinery to keep the refugees in camps without any hope for rehabilitation. UNWRA, the UN body formed for this purpose, should be regarded as one of the most cynical and inhumane creations in the field of humanitarian assistance. Attempts by UN Secretary General Dag Hammarskjold to develop, in 1959, a comprehensive refugee resettlement scheme encountered fierce Arab opposition and were immediately abandoned.

UNWRA, according to its own mission statement, does not aim to solve the refugee problem. This is in sharp contrast to all UN programs for the other tens of millions of refugees dealt with through the UN High Commissioner of Refugees. A fair, just and realistic solution to the refugee problem must start with the recognition that there are two refugee problems in the Middle East and both should be compensated. A fair and just solution must start with the premise that there was an exchange of populations in the Middle East and there is no way to turn back the historical clock.

A realistic solution must recognize that along with Israeli commitments to withdrawal, there must be a change in priorities, promoting a concrete program to rehabilitate and resettle the refugees -- as a prerequisite, rather than as an afterthought -- to the peace process. We all want Israelis and Palestinians to finally be able to live in peace. But as long as the refugee issue in the Middle East is defined by myth, and the historical record distorted, peace will be beyond reach.

Acknowledging the Jewish refugees from Arab lands, and understanding the hidden agenda behind a Palestinian "right of return" as well as the obstructive role played by both the Arab states and UNRWA in the refugee issue, are the first steps to restoring a sense of justice to the Middle East narrative. The Palestinian Arabs' commitment to peace will be proven in large part through their handling of the refugee issue.

Now let the shouting begin.

Here are a couple of questions.

Should Israel withdraw its settlements and troops from lands it acquired in the 1967 war and in return all arab states normalize relations with Israel?

Do you think that the Palestinians (who are the overwhelming majority in the West Bank, Gaza) have the right to their own state?

Let's not forget that many of the Arab Jews' lives only became worse when Israel and Zionists arrived in Palestine. In fact, some the Arab Jews' were "encouraged" to leave to Israel when the Mossad started bombing Iraqi synagogues, as an example.

I've talked to many Arab Jews who have expressed their sadness on how the creation of Israel and this alien European Zionism destroyed their lives in the Arab world and then they go to Israel and are second class citizens. In fact, I've heard some of them call Ashkenazis Ashka Nazis.

Arabs (Christian, Jewish and Muslim) are the biggest victims in this whole thing.

A bunch of European colonists arrive to Palestine and who are full of arrogance have created this mess. As have other Europeans done in other parts of the world.

Hey, you should be a runningback in the NFL, you dodge and weave brilliantly! Your historical sources are a bit suspect though, - David Duke! How utterly shamless to be posting that tripe in this forum, but it's your perogative. As a a true progressive, I'm not afraid of the truth, I'll be happy to face the truth and say "Hey, I was wrong", can you, or I you so blinded by ideology (or worse) that you you can't come to grips with facts, analysis and history? (As a progressive community we need to ask ourselves that everyday).

If there is to be any kind of rapprochemment in the middle east, it has to begin with intellectual honesty, and not repeating the "BIG LIES" as a blatent propoganda technique in order to try to score points for "your side" which only makes your position and motives suspect. Think about it.

and now lets turn on the lights and see what we can see -

For years anti-Zionists have maintained that the Zionist underground in Iraq had planted bombs aimed at Jewish targets to cause or hasten the Jewish exodus in 1950 -51. Now evidence published in Haaretz by Tom Segev vindicates the official Israeli line that the Iraqi Muslims, not Jews, threw the deadly bomb at the Masuda Shemtov synagogue in January 1951 which killed four Jews and injured 10.

"1n January 14, 1951, at about seven in the evening, a bomb - or perhaps it was a hand grenade - was tossed into the open courtyard of the Masuda Shemtov synagogue in Baghdad. The courtyard served as a gathering place for Jews, prior to their departure for the airport, on their way to Israel. At the time of the terror attack, the place was filled with several hundred people. Four of them, including a 12-year-old boy, were killed; about 10 were wounded. The Iraqi authorities blamed two activists from the Zionist underground, and had them executed...the 1951 bombing barely rates a footnote, but in the history of immigration to Israel, it still has significance, some of it political - because it is sometimes cited as one of the arguments against Zionism....The rumor particularly haunted former minister Mordechai Ben-Porat, the Mossad's man in Baghdad: Ben-Porat even sued for slander, and won an apology.

Now, a recent publication is shedding new light on the mystery. The revelations come from Yehuda Tager, an Israeli agent who operated in Baghdad, was exposed and spent about 10 years in prison there. According to Tager, the bombing of the Masuda Shemtov synagogue was not carried out by Israelis, but by members of the Muslim Brotherhood. The interview with Tager, now 83, appears in a new book by the British journalist Arthur Neslen, titled "Occupied Minds." Ehud Ein-Gil, deputy editor of Haaretz Magazine, who came across this information, called up Tager and the latter confirmed the version of events depicted in Neslen's book. "

ok? Got that? I loved your comments about the miserable Arabiic Jews "pining" to go home. Since you are Syrian(?) I assume you've must have talked to ALL of the Syrian Jews, it would be so easy to do, there are so few! Was the Syrian secret police present when these grateful Jews expressed their love of Syria???

For the thread readers who aren't so gullible: For years, the Jews in Syria lived in extreme fear. The Jewish Quarter in Damascus was under the constant surveillance of the secret police, who were present at synagogue services, weddings, bar-mitzvahs and other Jewish gatherings. Contact with foreigners was closely monitored. Travel abroad was permitted in exceptional cases, but only if a bond of $300-$1,000 was left behind, along with family members who served as hostages. U.S. pressure applied helped convince President Hafez Assad to lift these restrictions.

In an undercover operation in late 1994, 1,262 Syrian Jews were brought to Israel. The spiritual leader of the Syrian Jewish community for 25 years, Rabbi Avraham Hamra, was among those who left Syria and went to New York (he now lives in Israel). Syria had granted exit visas on condition that the Jews not go to Israel. By the end of 1994, the Joab Ben Zeruiah Synagogue in Aleppo, in continuous use for more than 1,600 years, was deserted. A year later, approximately 250 Jews remained in Damascus. By the middle of 2001, Rabbi Huder Shahada Kabariti estimated that 150 Jews were living in Damascus, 30 in Haleb and 20 in Kamashili.

Every two or three months, a rabbi visits from Istanbul, Turkey, to oversee preparation of kosher meat, which residents freeze and use until his next visit. Jews and Kurds are the only minorities not allowed to participate in the political system. They are the only minority whose identity cards note their religion.

But aside from that, it a regular Jewish paradise!

None of what you say would have happened to the Arab Jews if European Zionism (a european extension of colonialism) did not invade the lives of the Arabs (Christians, Jews and Muslims).

Look even Muslim and Christians Syrians are afraid of the Syrian government. The Jews of Syria got a good deal when they were allowed to leave. Tens of thousands of non-jewish syrians would leave syria if they had the means and permission to do so.

I see that you dodged my questions.

Untill the first step is taken:

Stop Killing People

all other points are moot.


Mac

Unfortunately, that won't happen.

I don't think there really can be a solution, truthfully. One reason for that, is the lack of real understanding about the problems in that region.....I don't think that Bush's reasoning he keeps touting....about those in the region not liking "our way of life and our freedom" is very simplistic...If that were true then the people in Iran and elsewhere wouldn't like our "western-style wear...like denim....or want to drive our automoblies or listen to our kind of music...............I do believe however...the problem lies with this country's one-sided unconditional liking for Israel...which in itself could be a bit simplistic....but when these ppl burn the American flag next to the Israeli flag that in of itself should speak volumes.

I think we should stop giving and selling both sides weapons and bullets.